The LEATHER OPTIONAL AD!! How did this iconic ad series begin?!? Micheal Sterns introduced Sean Marra and Jeff Sterns ...

Unknown Speaker  0:00  
The female version of leather optional plenty of leg room which was this bride this groom?

Jeff Sterns  0:05  
You know, what's the problem with a Land Rover when you don't see oil underneath it? You know? It means it's empty. Right? Why don't the English make computers? Because they can't make them leak

Unknown Speaker  0:15  
plenty of headroom on the second ad for you, which was history right? That's why we're here today. You called me because hey, people are still to this day, bring it up. Somebody had I think I saw your podcast, you know, they had a baby because of the the ad with

Unknown Speaker  0:33  
Jeff Sterns connected through guys. If they're bigwigs, we'll have him on the show. And yes, we'll talk about cars and everything else. Here he is now, Jeff Sterns

Jeff Sterns  0:50  
my brother, Michael, was working for you,

Unknown Speaker  0:54  
Michael had entertained working for me for a short period of time. And I think he basically sat in on the office and got to hear what we did working with car dealers around the country. And I think made a couple of visits and some outside of you his brother, and quickly immediately teed somebody else up and kind of like a shuck and jive move was like, Hey, listen, I don't think I'm gonna take the job. However, I got somebody perfect for you. And that was his way of kind of handing off, you know, the position to somebody else. Once he realized that we were in this crazy car dealer world, I don't think that was really his choice. But Michael did introduce me to you. That's, that's how I met you. And, and ultimately, you were his first customer. We did some targeted direct mail, which was our core, one of our core competencies at the time at the agency, that led into our great relationship and coming to see you in person and learning about what your goals were and what your challenges were and what you needed to do, to basically shake the mansion up and to get a new breed of customer in there. And that's what you charged me with, I left that I I'll never forget coming into the office, and we were gonna have the male's great and it worked. And it's always gonna work. And we're always going to get you know that two and a half 3% response, we're going to sell a handful of cars from it. It was like, but that's not going to solve the problem. And you left me with, you know, you sent me out the door saying, hey, figure that out. And I'll be interested in doing something but I don't need any more mail. Right. That's basically what it came down to. And I need something more than that. And I went to the as we say, the lab,

Jeff Sterns  2:30  
well, in Michael oversold and well, I don't want to say Michael oversold me on you. But when my brother says I'm working with this guy, Sean luck, I'd been in the car business, I was already a veteran, I was the GSM and a Cadillac dealership. At this point, I'd seen direct mail, you know, everyone watching this, whether they're in the car business or not as gotten their mailbox stuff with direct mail. But what I really wanted was something different. And I told Mike and he goes, listen, I really think this Shawn, this guy, Sean can do it. And I let you know, Shawn, I can't have everyone whispering in this mansion. And thinking that it's not cool to come into I want it to feel like a casino atmosphere. When people coming in. I want it to feel like people winning. I want it to be inviting and I want it to be inviting to everyone besides a DeVille buyer. Not that we weren't grateful to have the devil business. But yeah, the we already had the devil buyer playing bingo on the church, bingo machine, out in the service drive. And God bless those customers, we needed them. They were our bread and butter,

Unknown Speaker  3:33  
you have the vision you have to get we have to grow with a new audience. Right? If the older audience is, you know, in essence dying off, right? That's the reality of it. They're they're getting older, as we used to say in the media business, right? The radio business, they're falling off the dial that you know certain age, they stop listening to rate, right. It's just the reality consumers age out. And we have a we have an LTV of a customer. But the reality is, is we have to pick up these new customers and we have to find new, the new audience, right. And that's something that you had the vision to see is how do we get them in here, we have a product line that may not necessarily be so appealing the caetera and the caddy that Zig campaign was just bubbling was just gotten to come out. It was it was not really resonating the way it was supposed to it wasn't getting people into the store because it was kind of like a contrived way to be cool. And it wasn't resonating with Gen Xers at all. It was just very GM, right Madison Avenue, just very vanilla. And it just didn't connect with the audience. And maybe because the influencer thing had not really been born yet but we were doing street marketing and we had our finger on the pulse of the markets and we were out there in real street marketing teams, applying this kind of influencer marketing back in the 90s. And we were using it from a from a street marketing standpoint and it was doing interception and and using influencers in marketplace. That would influence based on usage of a product. We were doing that in the Reno market with the Winkle group. And that was something that we were really big on. And we thought that we thought that we could carry it over for you when we when we had the orders, and I'll let you take over from there.

Jeff Sterns  5:15  
Although you will you came up with this idea. And I gotta tell you like, what was going on internally? I did a lot of this when I was there is, how am I going to get this past my owner? And let's just do it anyway. Because I don't think my owners gonna go for this. So you came in, you know, a little bit like Darren from bewitched, with the storyboard of you know, here's the idea. And it really blew us away. So as these slides are on the screen, as these images are on the screen, let's talk about the first one. What's the first one you want to talk about?

Unknown Speaker  5:50  
Well, I think the first one is really the first set was before the entry of the male leather optional. So you got to start with really how it started and the storyboards were and we'll start with number one, the female version of leather optional, which we've which we Yep. And the first ad this individual who this influencer was you know in the hair It was in the hair industry was very just well known in the marketplace and an influencer family is an essence influencers on the on the fishing and the construction side. So these were just very well known young people in the marketplace. But this particular individual nakki, who is still today, an incredible influencer in Brooklyn, and in the hair industry agreed to do this shoot. And she immediately loved the idea of the leather optional concept. And of course, it tied into the vehicle. So it was a perfect way to cut and make this car that just wasn't cool, right? They say you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still not. Well, it might still be cute, but there was nothing we could do with the cutera. To make it even cute. It just wasn't even a catchy little tagline like they had, which we were just knew was a big turnoff. So that was the one of the first and most important parts of the ad was that leather optional. And to be able to kind of just grab people's attention with something that would be somewhat shocking. And remembered also in Tampa Bay, there was a very big culture of alternative lifestyle. And to this day, there is still conventions here for you know, what would be more apt to using you know, leather and chick whips and dips and chips and all that fun stuff. So this stuff was kind of relevant for Tampa Bay, too. It wasn't just like shocking, because a girl had leather and it was leather optional, and it grabbed your attention like a good ad should do. But it allowed us to have a series of these that made it fun and made it funny, right? Which was also then the second part of that storyboard, which none of these were obviously shot they were just drawn out on a storyboard. And was the plenty of leg room which was this bride this groom she's pulling him into which at the time was the Land Rover which did not really have right you can explain more as that as the GSM Jeff of Land Rover at the time the challenges Land Rover

Jeff Sterns  8:10  
at the time and I mean in Land Rover still have the reputation for little snuggles you know being an English car. How do you you know what's the problem with a Land Rover when you don't see oil underneath it? You know? It means it's empty. Right? Why don't the English make computers? Because they can't make them leak?

Unknown Speaker  8:30  
Did you guys actually have like, like the best jokes about Land Rovers at the time?

Jeff Sterns  8:35  
Well, I mean I later later got into roles in Bentley so it was definitely always an English car thing my by Bentley rep God rest his soul. Rodney, just loving to death Scottish guy says it's sir. It's not the leak. It's a location of lubrication problem, straight face to a customer. The Land Rover is English. So it was quirky. There were people that loved it, because of what it was. It was unbelievable. offroad like nothing like it. And if you recall, we had a couple of acre land rover test track out back to get it stuck and winch it out and whatever degree breakover angle inside angles and whatever and with the center of gravity, etc, etc. But it did not have plenty of leg room. All the things you'll do in Tampa Bay, by the way with a Land Rover, everything, everything and everything that the hipsters and you know, let's say you know, I gotta be politically correct, because I'm always politically correct on these podcasts. But let's say Hmm, who would like to drive those? Let's see, they might like Disney like me Otto's they like me. And they like their land rovers and I can tell you that I did increase the gay you did increase the gay when my ad came up. Finally, we got a little Little bit in there. And it was funny because a couple of times, you know, we're not onto my ad yet, boom. When we got to the one that I was in just a few times someone would be like, while I'm trying to close them on payment or something would be like, hey, you in that ad, and it was fun. I mean, it was definitely fun. I want to wait until we get to that add but we're now at the leather optional I'm sure we're now at the plenty of leg room. And you're asking describe that card had no frickin leg room it was it was a giant exterior with a tall roof. And I guess it was an engineering problem because inside it had nothing

Unknown Speaker  10:40  
but we want to do appeal to that SUV that crossover right? It wasn't about riding the rocks. It wasn't about you know you can you got a winch that can pull. Right this was about driving around Tampa Bay and going and go right this was about appealing to the soccer moms at that time. And and not only the soccer moms but ultimately the hipsters that everybody else in the Tampa Bay area. That would be what we're more interested in those SUVs and and what was burgeoning as that SUV rich SUV market.

Jeff Sterns  11:12  
Well, Shawn, I mean, I got to interrupt because there was a little bit of an off road culture in Tampa Bay. So right after I joined as general sales manager, that dealership, I think it was a fourth of July or was certainly around then I end up visiting a buddy of mine, Chris Warren at his new house and he had a retention pond behind the house. And I've been I've been to the Landrover driving school and we got the rock out front that we got to caulk sideways. So I know the things invincible I says he goes, is this your new demo, I'm like now I just wanted to drive it over. Because you got this retention pond out back, I'm going to show you something. So I go driving around the side of his house and around his birdcage pulling everything around the back, get it all in between the trees and whatever, fold the mirrors in. So I get it there and I drive it down, super sharp angle, the side of this retention pond, and like touch the front bumper to the water and throw it in reverse. And I get out of it. And everyone's like wow, that looked a little scary. That's nothing watch this. Take it down a little further. halfway up the grill. Back it up the thing you know, like like a bulldog backing up goes right out ever like oh my god I says it didn't really feel like a lot of effort. Let me try it again. I go down a little deeper and drink water, motor drinks water, we end up getting to tow trucks where they both had to hook their cables up to it in the backyard to pull the thing out. And I'm like my second week on the job and I ingested water into an engine like mothball an engine and a brand new so there was a big off road underground going on

Unknown Speaker  12:57  
but the big question is why three times the two times wasn't enough

Jeff Sterns  13:02  
because I got out the first I had to go a little further down. I'm Jeff Sterns, my drug of choice is more

Unknown Speaker  13:10  
Yeah, it's just give me another one. They were all in on the first one right you can sell for from the first one.

Jeff Sterns  13:18  
Right? I lost them all. I talked way faster close. A dog way past the closer though. But your ad campaign was genius. Because late You know, right now everyone has an SUV or a crossover. I mean, almost no passenger cars sell anymore compared to SUVs and crossovers. But at that time, an SUV was kind of novel. I mean, it was that it was an explore. I mean that was it. Just a few Escalades wasn't out yet. I mean, there was nothing like that. And you were actually putting a little spotlight on that. And if I recall, the newspaper came out weekly, and you ran 12 weeks I think everything ran three times or something right except the one bonus ad

Unknown Speaker  14:03  
it did. And each week there was a new a new ad running so it built that it kept the story in the theme going and then the third week, and yes it did. It did actually put a highlight on that and we were looking to focus on the utility and the soccer mom and the hipster and hey, this is this is this is a vehicle again you know that we position what the plenty of leg room

Jeff Sterns  14:26  
well and you have plenty of leg room and my own or we didn't tell anything about it and once he came down and it was like oh my god, what are you doing? And I'm like, Well listen, we're locked in the agreement the contract we can't stop it now. And he's like, but do you know what leg room What leg me?

Unknown Speaker  14:44  
We sure do. I mean, it is a bride and groom. You know, as we can see, we made sure it was politically correct. It's a bride and groom they're, they're so excited about each other. They can't wait to get into their brand new land rover by the way from emit. I mean, how cool is that? To be able to consummate the marriage? I mean, how fantastic and what a great

Jeff Sterns  15:06  
it's not about political correctness, Shawn, it was moral.

Unknown Speaker  15:09  
Yes, I get it, you know, like, that's all of a sudden something we shouldn't be doing. But the good news is, is that, that that ad with the plenty of leg room, you know, I think also related to a different audience in addition to the leather optional, right, starting with the week one that was kind of grabs your attention, and really just, you know, shook the market up, which it did and created a lot of talk value leading up to that more softer that now is the more normalized family, right? The mid 90s, the mid 90s family, young family just getting married and by the way, two very important influencers but one mainly Billy wells, who's in that he's to toured with the Goo Goo Dolls was in a band called Ben burner signed to Columbia Records. And he was an influencer and very well known, even to this day, produced by Matt Wallace, who did faith no more and Maroon five and just a really incredible artist and influencer in the Tampa Bay area, especially at that time. So Billy, and then Rachel, who's a designer from Parsons, who was in that ad and also in the scene, as as, as you call it,

Jeff Sterns  16:14  
when were you in the music business then john, when he signed to Columbia,

Unknown Speaker  16:18  
I did so when I was running the what became big gross, which was a traditional agency and we flipped it to take advantage of the.com in 98 right when we were doing this, we were kind of transitioning the company into a.com. But it was a traditional agency focused on direct response originally and and one of my side Yes, one of my side ventures was I was a founder and an investor in a record label that record labels called stainless and it ran alongside of the agency that was kind of like the hobby You know, that's what I did for fun I didn't play golf and I didn't you know, play cards that was what I was into right and and that was a really incredible you know, expos and marketing and what we were able to accomplish with mp3 dot com the early days of mp3 that's a whole different so we'll do a different show on that but Billy was a part of that and we were the literally 990 1000 downloads of of one of his tracks at that time to put us on a put us in Rolling Stone magazine article business 2.0 is a really great time so he was in that ad and I picked him purposely He was tall and good looking and we made him look a little bit less rock stars you could tell and just look look like the good get a good look at guy next door, the South Tampa guy making, you know, making that six figures that wants to flex and show off that very cool, you know, urban assault vehicle with his beautiful wife. So, you know, sex and rock'n'roll, right so far as what we're what we're accomplishing and also the standards of society. So we're kind of touching on everybody there. So the third ad was using an influencer in the area, who was really big or named was Roxanne x kabbalists. So we got Billy wells in AD two and Rachel, Rachel Myers and then naki Karcher and the first one and then the third ad was was Roxana Savalas and she worked at the at Red Star, which is a very popular art infused nightclub and acid top jazz and she was an influencer and they and the art culture and worked at was a writer and a really great writer for the week for the creative loafing weekly planet. A really great writer and wrote great great stories and you're still a writer to this day, but Roxanne who had this incredible hair as you can say, and there was a no brainer It was like look, you know, plenty of had room and that was the perfect thing to be able to use Roxanne for with that funky, you know, 90s that whole dance music scene and that just beautiful big Mediterranean hair, you know, just it was perfect and it just all came together and from the storyboard to what it what it was like when it got shot and and i think that that ad was able to relate to again females and and be able to really talk to young females in a different way about vehicles that they normally may have never looked at

Jeff Sterns  19:09  
Shawn but you got to understand an audience you got to understand we're in this Cadillac dealership that up till now has really just been Cadillac and the traditional Cadillac customer from their you know, kind of high end retirement communities and Orban buying there for 40 years. And I was really skeptical when my brother introduced me to you because I'm like, Hey, what are we going to get out of this little weekend rag that you look at to see which restaurant to go to or or who's got what band where or in the very very back the whatever seeking whatever ads, you know, in the bathroom, like are we even gonna get anything but the beautiful thing about these ads, I mean, like I like anything fun and I like a little stick and I like to be edgy, no doubt. So when you are showing them to me, I'm like, my God. What talent, but I was thinking Are we going to get anywhere in this rag. And when these were coming out, I couldn't go anywhere without someone bringing one up, because they were plenty of headroom. I mean, it was so edgy for a Cadillac dealership, in Clearwater, Florida is not a Cadillac dealership in LA, a Cadillac dealership in Clearwater, Florida. Not San Fran not New York.

Unknown Speaker  20:24  
So you got to remember though, Jeff, one of the things that wasn't just what you want to do accomplish in the vision that hey, I can I want to go after a different audience, we got to find a new way to sell new, you know, sell these new cars to younger people build a new audience and that next cars next 1020 years of customer so the one of the things why you guys, if you remember in that storyboard, there was also the data, the demographics of the readership of what was happening in those magazines, they were really substantial, those weeklies and it was tapping a whole nother audience that you guys were missing. And it was audited, and it was documented of what those numbers were. And that's why you guys like oh, this, this does make sense. Because on paper, the numbers were stronger than then even, you know, the times when it came to write, or that at the time the tribune as well, you had both of them, you know, you had to competitive Bay papers,

Jeff Sterns  21:18  
if you're not local. And Sean, we remember we're not just talking to local people on this show. Not only are we all over the United States, but our number two download is not even Canada. I think it's France. So the St. Petersburg Times, or the Tampa Tribune. That's it. Those were your two. Those are newspapers, which the young people like frickin new. How old are these frickin guys newspaper?

Unknown Speaker  21:45  
Yeah. And then they weren't reading the newspaper, just like what happened with that that's a trend that did not stop, right. And they were looking for alternative sources of content. And the internet was there now giving them that right, it's 99. So think about how much content people had access to now. And really, the world had changed greatly. By the time that we did these ads, as far as that younger Gen X that was that was basically consuming content differently. They adopted they adopted technology a lot faster than their, their generation before them their parents, right? You know, and they were right there at this major boom of the internet. So the numbers in those magazines or those weekly, those weeklies were really strong. I can't remember exactly. And I hope I'm not wrong. But I actually can remember, I think somewhere in the tune of, I think the average income might have been 60 plus $1,000. And of the average regular of of it at the time, and it was just the numbers were really solid. And then when you broke down what the psychographics were of that readership and those demos, it was really just like, yeah, these are those people that we want. And, by the way, I mean, they were fick. I mean, they were loaded in advertising and loaded in all of the best local, I'm not so good. But the majority and, and the and the big box stores and different types of national retailers are starting to put money in those papers at the time, if you remember. So it also gave me It gave you guys a little more confidence there too. Because you weren't the only you were the only dealer that had cracked the code, especially from a high line dealer standpoint, you were the only dealer that cracked the code and did anything like that before. So that was a first but the reality of it is is that, you know, other fortune 1000 brands, it started to sniff around and advertise in the weeklies at that point. And then that series, which was very successful and and was launched, then spawned the fourth ad which was, which was like an add on, which was great, because by this time, I believe, you know, the excitement, the enthusiasm. Again, I'll share the some of the some of the we'll call it small minded pushback and ignorance that that you encountered, getting hit with birdshot and stones and offense for something that really did accomplish what it was supposed to. But before we got there, you know, you I believe, if I recall, because one of the things that was great too, is that the shoe we did really was a great shoot we did Todd Bates, who was the creative director, or at the time, I think the head photographer and then became the creative director of the creative loafing, I think to this day, still involved could follow him on Instagram. Todd's an incredible artist, as well works with major companies and has produced just incredible, incredible photography and digital art. Just great creative direction, and he was the guy who shot the first set of ads. And we had to bring in a different photographer, the second set, he wasn't available, I think Dave Monroe who you went to his studio, if you remember and in Clearwater, actually, but when we brought you in to do that shoot, you had now kind of felt the pressure Yeah, some of the market and like you said, you everywhere you went, you were hearing things, and people were talking to you about it. And you know, if people are talking about something, right, the old saying, if they're talking about it, right, as long as they spell your name, right, good or bad, they're talking about it, and good or bad, they were talking about it. And that's what was happening. And you saw that, um, you know, from a standpoint, I'll let you talk about what you saw on the store and what that translated to but, but you wanted, we wanted to do another ad. And that next ad was going to be you. So I don't know if you want to talk about that, and how that all came together. Well, and

Jeff Sterns  25:36  
I think I mean, this is going back, but I think it was your idea. Why don't we put you in one.

Unknown Speaker  25:40  
Well, actually, you told me that I don't know that the leather chaps right, the leather. Where did those come from?

Jeff Sterns  25:49  
I think they were in the studio when I walked in. They were they were they were part of the props. Okay. I wasn't sure if you had told me that you had a pair of leather pants. Oh, no, I told you that I had a pair of leather. No, no, no, no, no. No. So I mean, outside of my new modeling career, I was very, very conservative. Wife, kid on the way white picket fence to Labrador Retrievers, Republican

Unknown Speaker  26:16  
and fitness. And you guys were very fit. And and it right? Yes, you guys fitness was a very good, a very important thing. I know that it happened very organically. It happened naturally in a conversation. And it happened very quickly. And then we did the shoe,

Jeff Sterns  26:30  
I think I think you said do you want to do one and we'll replace the leather optional girl with the whip with you. And of course, I'm in on any practical joke or stick no matter what. And I told nobody in the dealership, I told nobody. I told no bosses, I told no. co workers, and you just told me were to be in Clearwater. And I show up. And all of a sudden, I feel like a movie star because there's a little makeup. And you're and you're putting this these clothes on me this leather vest. And I remember you put all these clips to make it fit down the back. Yeah, clothes, pins or whatever they were one of

Unknown Speaker  27:06  
the things that was going on. And you know, again, we'd have to go back and look through the watermark at the time. But I know that we were going to tap, you know, the LBGT community at the time. And the reality of it is is that that was one of the main drivers was that we wanted to tap into the market. And we were going to use you in that effort. We were going to run the campaign now your your campaign specifically in watermark. And there was also something timely, like some big event or something. I'm not sure if it was pride or what was going on Jeff but we were tying into this is some type of event culturally that was taking place that watermark and we ended up just moving forward with that. And so I know this

Jeff Sterns  27:51  
what is watermark mean?

Unknown Speaker  27:53  
at which it's still out today watermark is a LGBT weekly or monthly publication at the

Jeff Sterns  27:59  
time. What's LBGT lesbian gay? trans? Well, thanks use me.

Unknown Speaker  28:04  
I live in by car but I'm not insane. kbT Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Didn't mean to mess that up. But yeah, LGBT. I don't even know if they had all of that at the time. It might have just been LG B. I swear I'm not I'm not being funny. I'm pretty confident that in 1999 I think it was LGB I

Jeff Sterns  28:27  
think the only trans that anyone knew about was in crying game at that time.

Unknown Speaker  28:32  
Yeah. Well, the reality is that it was a great opportunity to introduce and if you remember, this is very important. So if you remember, we were also working with somebody who was a very big influencer and a big voice in the gay community. His name is Sterling Powell and he's still here today. Sterling was an incredible artist. He worked with the city he still works with the city to this day curating all their art and everything. But Sterling if you remember we were doing and Sterling was really like a caricature Sterling Powell was a character a caricature of himself and it was this you know, you know this incredible abstract blend of Dolly meets you know, this john waters meets right it was beats beats Jeff who is the character behind Sterling because he's a wonderful guy, but if you remember Sterling remembers this if he watches this we'll make sure we send it to him. Sterling. Actually, you were going to go forward with it. We were going to make Sterling a basically like basically a represent we were going to give him a demo potentially and he was going to

Jeff Sterns  29:40  
he was in the store for some reason now. He's gonna do Yeah, he was

Unknown Speaker  29:43  
gonna be like an ambassador and basically, to you know, it wasn't a good fit for you guys. I think you guys got a little bit of cold feet. You probably got a hard now upstairs, but because he's very flamboyant, but he he was an incredible advocate for AIDS and He was one of the first people in Florida on the cocktail that saved his life. And was was an incredible mouthpiece and advocate for AIDS and, you know, gay men affected, inflicted with AIDS that were suffering. And to this day, he's an incredible testament. So what was so magical about this campaign was really the people. It was the people that are in these ads, that were real influencers in this market area that allowed you to tap on market and connect with an audience, by the way, many audiences, not just one, many audiences across not just the bay but a region because that that thing covered a region in essence, right, even though that magazine, it covered a region. And that's what made it so special to photographers, Todd Bates, Dave Monroe, on the second ad for you, which was history, right? That's why we're here today. You called me because hey, people are still to this day, bring it up. Somebody had I think I saw your podcast, you know, they had a baby because of the the ad with tell. That's right. That's right. I mean, that I mean, it's flattering To me, it's humbling. It's but it's it's what the magic of that campaign was it was the it was everything the photographers, I remember the girls who did the makeup, I think it was star was the star makeup was the name of it, or something along I can't I can't remember all this because the characters were so rich and colorful, off camera, as well as on camera. And I have actual backstage shots. Jeff, I'll send over to you. I still have to this day of backstage like with all of us, the models and everything. shot with the photographer, I don't know who took the picture might have been you. Somebody took the picture. But still to this day have that picture. And it was really that was the power in the magic in that campaign. It was the people it was it was who they were and what they were when the camera wasn't on them when they were influencing and just being themselves and being creative types and influencers in a market area. And when all that came together, coupled with you know, what was happening in society, in media and digital and advertising and the early stages of influencers, which was really this not just the US but there was a lot of what we see today was starting to really bubble under at the time. So really, really exciting and really energizing to have this conversation that is for sure

Jeff Sterns  32:28  
that ad is 99 so here we are 22 ish years later, and it still comes up.

Unknown Speaker  32:39  
This has been Jeff Sterns connected through cars.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai