Shawn Armorer Part1! Bus Dev for some of the largest and best in Canada!

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

shawn, people, bdc, processes, car, manager, business, dealer, book, urgent, listen, important, learned, washer, dealt, largest, leaders, group, coach, service

SPEAKERS

Jeff Sterns

Jeff Sterns  00:00

Jeff Sterns connected through cars, and today's guest is Shawn armour. My good friend from Quebec, Sean has worked for the largest dealer group and largest individual dealership of his make in Canada and another large dealer group, and I've done business with him at all three places find him to be a man of integrity, a man of perfectionism, a man of humility, a student of the business, a student of leadership, kind of like a mad scientist of figuring out processes, or as I was saying, Canada, processes. But one thing that I find so interesting about Shawn, just see get what he's about his when he applied at one of his original positions in the car business, our washer, he wore a suit and tie. Hey, tension is Shawn watch, I'm sure you're gonna like him.

00:48

At the beginning, I hate to use the term vendor. But at the beginning, that's what you guys were. But

Jeff Sterns  00:54

he treated us that way. We had no mistake, we only saw ourselves as a vendor at the beginning.

00:58

Yeah, but look, it's become a fruitful friendship. And we're sharing together now for like, what, five, six years, I've brought you to three different dealer groups. So the proofs in the pudding, I call them up and I said, Hey, listen, I just got to pay the bills. So are you guys looking for anyone? And he said, Listen, I can get you in. I know that they're looking for car washers. But that's that's all I really know. So in my mind, I'm like, like I was saying before, you've never shown on anybody, you know, every position is necessary. Right? So when he said car washer, I didn't see it as a car washer. You know, I saw it as you know what it's an opportunity to challenge to be the best damn washer that they've ever seen by side, there's always an opportunity. I'm just that guy. So I saw it as an opportunity to well, am I really just processing payments? Or is there an opportunity right now to go through all these work orders in the next two hours to understand what our operation coats are? So that led me to being a service advisor. And then from there, I became service manager tried my hand out I use car sales. I did really well. I think I did 44 cars in three months, just try and see what we can do with this thing called BDC. Spinelli were built CRMs they valued my CV when they saw it, because the internet craze was just starting to think if we put you if we gave you a bunch of developers because they were a tech firm. So do you think if we give you a bunch of developers, you can build a silo of our CRM specifically for service?

Jeff Sterns  02:27

No, your points were all perfect. And then once we sent you the sensitivity training, it all came together. And

02:32

then I got picked up by the delivery group. She's one of Canada's largest publicly held groups. I've become a growth expert. I've become a servant leader, manage the data coach to people are we allowed to really use swear words on here, like I don't want to swear but so listen back yourself. I

Jeff Sterns  02:49

mean, Canadians do swear a lot. I mean, really, what you've done is amazing.

02:57

Jeff Sterns connected through Guys, if they're big wigs, we'll have him on the show. And yes, we'll talk about cars and everything else. Here he is now, Jeff Sterns?

Jeff Sterns  03:15

Well, this is Jeff Sterns connected by cars with my good friend, Sean armour. And Sean, I want you to know I'm wearing my I want you to notice I'm wearing my seriously Florida t shirt today. And I put that on knowing it was gonna be you today.

03:30

Yeah, well, I dare you to go outside today. Right now, I think we have so far. Excuse the metrics there that I'm going to give you the Canadian measurements. But I think we're at roughly around 10 centimeters. And it's got to be like minus four outside. So yeah, that T shirt wouldn't get you too far.

Jeff Sterns  03:47

So Shawn, and I go back quite a few years. For the listeners that don't know I'm VP of sales at car chat 24. And if you're not in the car business, I provide that operator on the screen that says click here for a live operator and then our operators answer your support question when you're asking business hours, or what's a manager's name, or more important that our dealers want. Hopefully, you'll be looking for a car and we get your name and number and pass it on to the dealer. That's how I met this bastard that you're looking at on the screen now.

04:24

Literally,

Jeff Sterns  04:25

quite literally a Shawn was running the internet department or the BDC. And again, if you're not in the business BDC is Business Development Center. And this would be the department that's generally first touch with a customer trying to buy a car or get service to get an appointment to get help to get organized. Shawn when I say bastard, let's see. I think I'm putting that kindly. Shawn was the pickiest, most micromanaging, perfectionist, and I don't want to offend any my other dealers. That one To be seen that way. But Shawn was for sure. In the top five, I don't know that he was the top one, but he might have been the top one,

05:08

definitely top five least top three,

Jeff Sterns  05:11

and I'm talking out of 1000s I've dealt with so not a terrible position, when Shawn would call me or write me, I would actually pee down my own leg. Once in a while, I would get so nervous. But one thing that Shawn did, I'll call him a super user. Thank you, sir. He actually taught us how to be a lot better in all fairness,

05:33

sent out again for your people just so they don't have to rewind that.

Jeff Sterns  05:36

Let's let's get that out. Again. Shawn taught us how to be better, as painful as it could be, on our side, many, many of our processes, many of the way that we interact with the car buying or car servicing public on the dealerships website, or the processes or software that we have going on between us and the dealer. A lot of it got adjusted because of Sean's demands that later we recognize him as constructive input. Not just kvetch,

06:09

it's all about systems, right? Everything is about systems and processes. I mean, I think not to go off, but we're just talking but all too often, especially in the head of the snake. But all too often, you know, organizations, companies, as a whole, you know, are really focused on results. And the bottom line, which is super important, right? But your results is a destination. The process is the journey. So if you're not having fun during the journey that you know, you're the results, well, you know, they're going to suffer. So through you and we'll I guess we'll elaborate on this but through you I like to I've learned a lot from you guys as well. So it's like a mutual friendship. And I think at the beginning, I hate to use the term vendor but at the beginning that's what you guys were. But

Jeff Sterns  06:51

he treated us that way. We had no mistake we only saw ourselves as a vendor at the beginning.

06:55

Yeah, but look, it's become a fruitful friendship and we're sharing together now for like, what five six years I've brought you to three different dealer groups so the proofs in the pudding I mean, if we've established a friendship and partnership no longer a vendor you guys are partners right? So that goes both ways. I love your company, by the way is amazing best in your business.

Jeff Sterns  07:15

Now Shawn, I can take that as a promo clip out Sean armour says car chat 24 the best in the business

07:22

well not not just the actual tool and ease but everything from and listen I've dealt with quite a few different providers like Meteor companies if you will, and they're they're all respectively they're all pretty good but I think where you guys Excel really is the service your customer service is bar none the best from whenever I have issues or whenever I call like you said before you guys never really ran from my calls. I think everybody in the company at one point knew my name and who I was but I have had relationships with absolutely everybody from some of your agents to the Customer Support Manager to obviously Alicia yourself ownership. So ya know, your after sales support is bar none one of the best that I've dealt with and I'm talking about even compared to these big third party, internet lead providers. You know, I think sometimes that the essence of customer service gets lost in these big box stores. But you guys have certainly find a way to capitalize and not you guys bar none are at the top of my list. You I'm in the top five for you, but you guys are in the top three for me. So

Jeff Sterns  08:28

that's beautiful. Well, you know like it. We don't want to get into scorekeeping because sometimes a big problem in relationship when the scorekeeping begins now, your your background is not too shabby either. I definitely want to know how you got into the car space but staggering a little bit. And maybe you were in another place that I don't know about, but you are in some of the largest and most impressive dealer and dealer groups in the nation in Canada.

08:53

Yeah, well, essentially, my journey started in 2002. Prior to that, I was kind of like, I guess you could say scurrying under foot, you know, and so like a 21 year old, 22 year old we think we know everything. So really quick came from the product, unfortunately, of a divorced household dad left at a very early age, I think it was around 10, or 11. never saw him again. So basically, I was brought up by my mom, who was sincerely the strongest person, and the best coach I've ever had in my life, with regards to work ethic, working hard, and just get it done. So you know, she raised three big boys, and she has, you know, the sad story to three jobs, blah, blah, blah, just doing what she had to do to survive. So when you're growing up, obviously, on one side of the spectrum, not having that male in my life to kind of navigate me, the devalues that I learned from my mom with regards to work ethic instilled in me, loyalty, perseverance, and just getting the job done. So eventually what happened is I've had a lot of, I guess, you could just call them jobs. And eventually I was When I found my calling, I loved marketing. I love people. I love talking, I love helping coaching leadership type stuff. So I felt that the marketing Avenue was the way to go. So I went to school, I graduated and marketing. And when I left for school, obviously, when you're there, they tell you to shoot for the stars. And, unfortunately, you get the harsh reality when you graduate from school that I didn't have enough experience here. And there was always an excuse, not the high on the show. I lived on my own at the time, I was like, 2324, whatever it is, and I pay some bills. So at the time, and my little brother was working at one of the larger dealer groups here in Montreal, and I called them up and I said, Hey, listen, I just got to pay the bills. So are you guys looking for anyone? And he said, Listen, I can get you in. I know that they're looking for car washers. But that's, that's all I really know. So in my mind, I'm like, like I was saying before, you've never shown on anybody, you know, every position is necessary. Right? So when he said car washer, I didn't see it as a car washer. You know, I saw it as you know, what it's an opportunity to is challenged to be the best damn washer that they've ever seen. If that even exists.

Jeff Sterns  11:09

in you, I can see that in your show.

11:11

It was beyond detail. I was I was literally driving my manager crazy. Because, you know, I was in there with a toothbrush, like trying to get you know, in between driving reverse. And I was just like, and they're like, No, no, no, you're taking way too much time to wash these cars. But it was just my ethics and it's just prideful, like, that's somebody's vehicle. You know, somebody paid to have a car wash. So I'm gonna wash the shit out of this thing. So yeah, I guess that came out in the wash. And then so 2002 I got a job washing cars. Funny story, I actually showed up to the interview with a suit and tie the sales manager at the time, like, you know, this is not a sales job. It's to wash cars. I'm like, yeah, I'm very much aware that he's like, Okay, well, no one's ever worn a tie, to do an interview to wash cars. And I said, Well, listen, it's not who I am. It's my circumstance. And I felt the need to show them that I was the real deal. And that's it. So I got into the business in 2002, washing cars. And next thing I know, 19 years later, I'm still here setting up bdcs, or business development centers for the larger, larger groups in Canada.

Jeff Sterns  12:18

Incredible. Now, you really did work, and not as a car washer, but you ended up in the sales role or management role. And if I'm not mistaken, and can you talk about dulari? I mean, you mentioned your background, of course.

12:32

Yeah, I mean, listen out of out of all the dealer groups, it's, you know, it's, I'll just give you so I went from from car washer. And then from car washer, I went to the jockey. So the gentlemen are the people that, you know, greet the customer, take the car, put the bags on the thing. And then from there, I went over to do the appointments. So customer service type stuff on the phone for about four years, I really learned my craft. While doing that, obviously, I was learning the cash. So whenever the cashier wasn't available, or had to leave early, I was always that guy that put my hand up, you know, when, you know, when there was issues, or they needed somebody for those two hours to fill in. I didn't see it as Oh my god, they're picking on me. I saw it, there's always an opportunity. I'm just that guy. So I saw it as an opportunity to well, am I really just processing payments? Or is there an opportunity right now to go through all these work orders in the next two hours to understand what our operation coats? Why is this here? What's the descriptions? What's this charge? Why is this? Why is that so I always found it as an opportunity to learn. That was quickly stopped by my manager. So that led me to being a service advisor. And then from there, I became service manager tried my hand out I use car sales. I did really well. I think I did 44 cars in three months. Well for us, that's good. But the 90 nines were just killing me. The nine to nines are just killing me. So I just didn't see myself wanting a career in that. So I went back on the phones. And then in 2008, I believe because I can't give them my two weeks. And my two week notice like Hey, guys, listen, it's been a good ride. But you know, I want to do so much more than at the time I'll never forget this. They're like, hold on, you know, we have a BDC across the street. This is like seven or eight years in. And before you leave, just give us four or five months. You're leaving anyway. So go across the street, figure this thing out, whatever it is called a BDC. Figure it out. Try and you're really good at what you do people like you and you're really good on the phones. So just try and see what we can do with this thing called BDC. And after three months, we went from a trial process to full fledge this is what we're going to do. And that was my first taste of BTC. So I've been in the car business now about 19 years.

Jeff Sterns  14:49

What's wrong was that john doe, I know them.

14:52

Spinelli Group,

Jeff Sterns  14:54

Spinelli Group, okay, so,

14:55

yeah, big names that one of the actually one of the oldest groups here in Montreal is not Canada. I mean, they're they celebrated 100 years, they got to be 102. Now, they're at their fourth generation and management. So strong group, very strong group, great people, great people. And I have had a lot of my coaching a lot of my mentors have through that process. I mean, listen, if you're around for 100 years, you're doing something right. I went over to a marketing company that builds CRMs. They valued my CV when they saw it, because the internet craze was just starting. So all too often, even to this day, which we should get into later on. But all too often, the service department is completely forgotten, which is just amazes me. So I went in, and they saw value, and they're like, Listen, dude, you have like 11 years of service experience, 10 years service experience, do you think if we put you if we gave you a bunch of developers, because they were a tech firm? So do you think if we gave you a bunch of developers, you could build a silo of our CRM, specifically for service? So I said, Yeah, absolutely. So I wrote the book for them. Four months later, it turned into I believe it's something around 287 pages. Wow, setup. Okay, now that it's all you wrote all this up, like best practices, campaigns, processes, what to do, when to do it, how to do it. And eventually, when I was done writing that book for them, in hindsight, I'm a fool, because I never trademarked it. But I mean, listen, I'm a loyal guy. So I was doing it, because that's what was required. So yeah, so then I made it come to life with a bunch of developers. And that actually was amazing, because it really exposed me to the back end stuff, how things work in the back, which later is the whole reason why I would bust your balls. All right. You know, exactly what I needed the product to do. And you guys were cool enough to take in these recommendations and go Okay, I think he has a point. You know, his his, his delivery is a bit unique. But

Jeff Sterns  16:59

he has a point. So no, your points were all perfect. And then once we sent you to the sensitivity training, it all came together.

17:07

And then I got picked up by the delivery group. She's one of Canada's largest publicly held groups, again, built a BDC department from the ground up, I was there for right under three years. Then I got picked up picked up by another larger group, my Mercedes Benz largest volume dealer in all of Canada. So that exposes me to another facet of the company. That's kind of where I met you. And and then yeah, and then I got to drink COVID I got picked up by another group. So I never really quit. Right? I always was kind of picked up. So I mean, to be humbly Oregon, if I could say it that way. You know, I've been I've become a growth expert. You know, a galvanised growth expert with regards to BDC. I mean, b2c is what I live and breathe and build five of them by this point, so

Jeff Sterns  17:55

well, humble, you know, humble arrogance. So I'm gonna lean what Shawn's saying towards humility. Because I don't even think it's really arrogance. I mean, like Mark Twain said, it's, if it's the truth that ain't bragging. I mean, look, he's running BTC in the largest public dealer group in Canada, he moves to the largest Mercedes dealer in the nation, and gets their business development center going. So you really are humble about him? That's, that's a terrific Feat. I mean, I know you appreciate the opportunity. And I know, you know that there was other team members involved in it wasn't only you, but it was definitely your ideas and your push. Yeah.

18:39

And you know, what I'd like to since people are going to be seeing this, I think it's very important, extremely important for me to really emphasize, I've become a servant leader, and all the ideas that you can put, and I'm being serious right now, and I'm hoping other leaders or dealer principals can can take a look at this, because at the end of the day, you can have all the great ideas, you know, and ideas, nothing without execution, and become a servant leader. It's all about people and always has been about people for me, you know, I manage the data, but I coach to people, always. And it's really about emotional intelligence. It's really about empathy. These are human beings, right, so seldomly, does anybody wake up in the morning say, Hey, I can't wait to screw up today. Right? So this is where for me, I've devised my own coaching style or leadership style into manage the data coach to people. So I just really wanted to be very specific that most of my success would not have come to fruition if it wasn't for my ability to hire really smart people.

Jeff Sterns  19:49

So, servant leadership, where did you learn this? Did you have a boss that influenced you? Or did you read a book or how did you end up and I'm familiar with the term and I like it. How did you end up there?

20:01

Oh, great questions. So without saying names, because I'm just out of respect for them, it came from a couple of places. First things first, I want to thank him. Are we allowed to really use swear words on here? Like, I don't want to swear. But so listen back yourself. I

Jeff Sterns  20:15

mean, Canadians do swear a lot.

20:18

I've had really shitty bosses along the way on this journey. I've had a lot of good ones, but I've had more shitty ones. Let me tell you. So I always what a great question. I always remember early on in my career when we had and, and it's not to say not to be cynical, because like I said, you know, it's the old adage of, they're just focused on results. I don't care how we get there. Let's just get there, What a shitty mentality, we will get there. But let's work on the process. Anyway, I've had really shitty bosses. And along the way, I've always told myself, you know, based on my morals, my moral compass, you know, and what I've seen in my mom, and I've always said, if ever, I'm in a position of power, throughout this journey, if ever, I have the opportunity to be responsible for people, at least now I know how not to do it. So that was one of the biggest lessons is just day to day. Right. So thank you, for all my shitty bosses. Actually, I think I'm a lot. Number two, have a had two really, really great mentors in this business. Really, really good mentors, and not just mentors, but leaders. All too often a lot of people have the titles of managers, right. And managers are important. Don't get me wrong, right. But when you become a leader, you really cross that threshold. You know, and a lot of managers Unfortunately, they were given a title, not a crown. Right? So they are on the manager, so they rule with the iron fist.

Jeff Sterns  21:49

I think, Shawn, that's the difference between demanding respect, and commanding respect. I mean, if you're a manager, and you need to follow me, look at my title, I got the big, biggest business card in the place. You're demanding that they respect you. But you're not necessarily earning it, or that's what I would call commanding. Your commanding respect, you don't have to ask for

22:08

Yeah, well, I mean, listen, I heard this saying it's not mine. But the minute I heard it, I believe it was Simon Sinek. But I just, I will get into the books after but managers do things, right. leaders do the right things. And I had to read that over and over and over. And it really, truly made sense. And it kept me humble. So on top of so one, shooting managers helped me out, too, I had two really, really good mentors. And three, as you said before, the books, books, it's so important reading is so important for me anyway, I am a spiritual person, but not not in the not in the weird sense, but spiritual in the sense of really knowing myself, and really knowing my triggers and how I could get to the next level continuous improvement. So some of the books that have really, really helped me do was Simon Sinek. I mean, I'm a huge with Simon Sinek fan, Jim's clear atomic habits. That's the one I'm reading right now. fantastic book, there was Daniel Goleman, emotional intelligence, that one was really, really helped me really understand people. And really understand that, you know, I am not response as a leader. For me personally, I am not responsible for the results. With where I am right now in my career, I'm responsible for the people that are responsible for the results. And when you really break that down, it comes down to processes and if we're emotional beings, why are we not wired? Why aren't top leaders or servant leaders? Why are they not learning about emotional intelligence? why they're not learning about empathy? You know, everything's about how to close the deal. How to close that sale, results, results results, you know, which are very important, like I said before, but at the same time, learning about people is even more important. You know, Stephen Covey, another great person I've been following absolutely amazing, the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. What a great book and that's about I think I read that thing five times. So I keep going back to these reference points. And I just make sure that I'm constantly learning. You mentioned some great books. I love the emotional intelligence book and I'm, I'm embarrassed to say I've probably been using Seven Habits since before you started. When I look at his YouTube videos, I was like, Damn, I was even born.

Jeff Sterns  24:36

Like my favorite part of, I mean, there's a lot of grit I mean, seek first to understand before right, wanting to be understood,

24:44

what's your favorite album?

Jeff Sterns  24:46

My favorite part is seven habits actually the four quadrants the important but not urgent, urgent, but not important, right? Neither urgent nor important. And I like to use that with my family and with my staff. Because I've been put First things first. It I find that sometimes people react to the they make things that are important urgent when they don't need to be urgent. So, here's what I mean or what Stephen Covey meant a baby crying. I have a four month old daughter. So yeah, congratulations,

25:18

by the way. Absolutely.

Jeff Sterns  25:20

Thank you very much. And you know, we're about the same age. So you know, I'm suggesting you might want to try a new one. Also.

25:30

The

Jeff Sterns  25:32

when my baby's crying in a day or middle of the night, that's urgent, I don't have another time that I can take care of her or respond to her. But I'll put that in important and urgent because it's also a baby. And it could be some need, right? pain or needs to eat or something like that. When the phone rings or the doorbell rings, that's also urgent, because there's not another time that you can answer a ringing phone. And there's not another time that you can answer a ringing doorbell. But it's not necessarily important. It's just urgent, correct. And then there's, of course, important, but not urgent. So that's important, but it doesn't mean it has to be dealt with now. And people get urgency and importance are confused at times. And I think that people in workers, I'm a worker, someone with a job, whether well home or work. I think that because it's important that it has to happen now. But if you came to me and you said, Hey, Jeff, there's this thing that's urgent, because it's bothering you, it actually could be a little self indulgent, because you just want to take care of it now. But if you came to me and said, Listen, when you're free, can you see me about this thing and not need to interrupt me now? It'll still be there then. And it really didn't matter if it was taken care of at 10am or 2pm. Absolutely. And then of course, there's the neither urgent nor important and it doesn't mean that there can't be enjoyable things in life. But when you're planning your first things first and business, so that you prioritize that I really enjoyed that course.

27:03

Yeah, and it's great question for me what stuck out what's really helped me become I guess what I've been referred to as, as a data scientist or a data scientist, however you want to say it. begin with the end in mind,

Jeff Sterns  27:16

begin with the end in mind,

27:18

begin with the end in mind that Oh, man that has just guided me. And it's what's basically brought me success in my career. And again, like we were talking about perception. No, I don't have a Ferrari outside. And no, I'm not like one of these YouTube stars that makes 100,000 a month or I don't get 50,000 likes to me and my life and my perception of it. That's not success. My success is doing this right now. Talking to Jeff Sterns, he started off four or five years ago, as just some guy on the phone trying to pitch me, you know, his product, and it's become serious, sincerely a true friendship. Yeah, to the point where five years later, I mean, I can even be doing this with you. That is successful. To me.

Jeff Sterns  28:02

credit where credit's due also, I mean, what I didn't mention at the beginning, is Shawn was one of the main people, there was a couple he wasn't the only one I know he likes to be number one on the list. But there was a couple that said, you need to do a podcast, and you'd already done a few podcasts. But let me be clear that you were stone instrumental in me actually going from thinking about it to

28:27

putting in and arguing the first one. Yeah. And I believe in you and I and you know what, one of the awesome things that I've learned about myself is, and I'm about to go off on a tangent because I think right now, in 2021, we need leadership, we need thought provoking leaders. There's a lot of people that know stuff. But unfortunately, a lot of it is lip service. You know, when it comes down, it's very easy for me to open a book and recite something that I've learned, but it's another thing to execute it to be able to sit down with people and show them how to do it. So there's phases of construction to this thing, right. So, but when I saw when I saw some of your YouTube videos from back in the day, I was just like, how are you not doing this?

Jeff Sterns  29:10

You know? Yeah, like back before YouTube, so how I ended up on YouTube.

29:15

Someone transferred it from VHS or beta.

29:23

This has been Jeff Sterns connected through cars.