CHARLES MANSON | San Quentin story | Evil Crazy | HOW TO WIN FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE!?!

Unknown Speaker  0:00  
Somebody scored him with a can of lighter fluid and ignited it. He had one book in his cell. And when I saw it on the top bunk, I said, I said, Charlie, it's an interesting reading selection. He knew what I was talking about. He said the only book I own was How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. I couldn't have built the Manson Family without it.

Unknown Speaker  0:24  
Jeff Sterns connected through cars, if they're bigwigs, we'll have him on the show. And yes, we'll talk about cars and everything else. Here he is now, Jeff Sterns.

Unknown Speaker  0:42  
And we will with insight, I didn't know it, of Charlie, I knew he was there somewhere, but he was he didn't have access to the general population. he sued and got access to the general population. The first day he was out on the yard, somebody scored him with a can of lighter fluid and ignited him. And so he decided that perhaps the adjustment center where you're basically in solitary confinement 23 hours a day, didn't look so bad after all, but know that the suit was I'd come in, in the big Cadillac, they couldn't see that walk through the sallyport. And from his cell, out a little window across the open air to the next wall with a gun rail his he could see me and he saw people greeting me and then few hours later saw people waving goodbye. And he asked Terry Wooster, the lieutenant who was sort of in Well, he was in charge of the prison, but he was also if I had a problem trying to get something done. I told Terry and everything happened because the warden had said, make it easy. We want him to stay here. So he looking out through the window. Charlie, ask Jerry Wooster. Who is that? What's been gay, and he does want to, I want to meet him. I didn't know this conversation taking place. Jerry Wooster came up to one night when I came in. And he says, Ben, I got an inmate that wants to meet you. And I sort of send him to the class, you know, we can always squeeze in another chair. He said, this one can't come to the class. I had full run or the prison, I could go even into death row. But I chose I chose not to, I thought that was sort of bad taste to go in and stare at people that were only about 40 lm on death row, then now that California doesn't execute people are 700, I think. But I chose not to go in there. The other place that I really, it was sort of made clear to me I shouldn't go was the adjustment center. Those are the people who for one reason or another hadn't qualified for death row, or they won their appeal or something, but they didn't play well with others. So they kept them locked up. That's where Charlie, what's he and he said, He's in the adjustment sentence. I Oh, okay. He said, but he wants you to visit with him. I said, Okay. Does he have a name? He said, Yeah, Charlie Manson. And so I agreed and went in to his to the adjustment center, and therefore his cell

Jeff Sterns  3:16  
threatened. At that moment, when you said, Does he have a name? And they said, Charlie Manson, like you didn't like you were very level right there. You didn't show any emotion. Were you totally fine and calm about it? Did you kind of ask, like, who like the Charlie means? Like, what happened?

Unknown Speaker  3:36  
No, I work in at San Quentin for five years with some very unusual people, some great people, but some very unusual people who had done very unusual things. And I'm running around with them loose on the floor and all. And then in Lompoc, there were people in the camp who had done things as bad or worse than Charlie Manson. So they just didn't get the notoriety and the headlines. And also No, it didn't bother me at all. And, you know, common sense. They're not going to send me into a lion's den and not sort of pay attention. I hadn't been in a cell five minutes when a guard came walking by up on the fifth year, jingling his keys when a guard wants you know, he's there. He lets the keys jingle when he doesn't want you know, he's there. He holds him in his hand. So I heard the jingling keys, which was a signal to Charlie ennemi. We got armed people out here. But Manson I didn't know it till I met. What it reminded me meeting set is Sammy Davis Jr. who I also met. They were tiny people. Manson was not a physical threat to anybody unless he snuck up on you and did something. He was a mental threat. And I've told many people be glad you weren't in San Francisco in the late 60s when they were all here looking for the young The Summer of Love, Be glad you weren't there and didn't bump into Charlie Manson. Cuz you know that Manson gang was made up of upper middle class educated people. He didn't need dummies to recruit them. And I may have told you this in private conversation, he had one book in his cell. And when I saw it on the top bunk, I said, I said, Charlie, it's an interesting reading selection. He knew what I was talking about. He said, the only book I own was How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. He said, it's my Bible. I couldn't have built the Manson Family without it. Honest to God. All the techniques are that you know, you can take this on. Yeah, you can take a gun and protect your family and take a gun and go rob a bank. So gun, the techniques in in How to Win Friends and Influence People will work in just about any situation, no matter what the goal is. I can

Jeff Sterns  5:52  
totally see that. And of course, read the book, and I get that it's just amazing in that like, okay, but did he have remorse? I mean, I don't know what you got into No,

Unknown Speaker  6:04  
no, okay. Charlie was crazy. But not the television crazy that he just died, as you probably know, that I don't know, roughly a year ago at age 80. Which was a shame because he was trying to get married and I thought just when Charlie was settling down, he bitten the bullet and took off. But anyway, he was you've seen him with Geraldo, Geraldo. Rivera, Rivera, whatever his name is, he loves to have I was with Charlie Manson looking death in the eye and so on Manson, I repeat was about the size of a mouse and have no physical consequences. But he would get up in front of the camera in the Geraldo type situation to go bookable Google and you know, he had this wasco by then carved in his head and carry on while Charlie was crazy. But I discovered talking with him for nine hours that he was not so but it wasn't that kind of nuts. He was nuts. Evil nuts, when you looked in his eyes, they were mesmerizing. You got the feeling he could look through your eyes and out through the back of your head. And he knew how to use the physical attributes that he had. And time into. What if he aimed it in some direction was quite impressive. His mental acuity, but it got misguided. When the first night I was there, guard comes down. I forget what is the same guard that I just told you about with the rattling keys. But early on, guard comes down the area outside the cell. And the keys are rattling and we're enjoying it talking about something he said excuse me, Ben jumps up, runs over to the bars as the guard goes by goes boo boo boo boo does the crazy stuff you've seen on television. The guard didn't even look at it just said Hi, Charlie, and kept going. Apparently he'd seen the show before. Then Charlie came back sat down. He said I'm sorry. They love that stuff. So to him, it was a showbusiness act. It was proactive. It was intentional.

Jeff Sterns  8:20  
Going back to the book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. But it's not surprising to me that he could say that I use the knowledge from that book to do what I did or use the principles to do what I did. What bugs me or what I'm stuck on a little bit is he's keeping it what's the word like as a reminder or as his guide or Bible or of his one thing? like yeah, that's the book that got me where I am like he was good with it are okay with it or happy about it? I mean, does that make sense?

Unknown Speaker  8:58  
Yeah, I know sorting memory, memory might be what you and I might read How to Win Friends and Influence People as an inspirational book to teach you something that reminds you that people want to feel important and help them do that and so on. with Charlie the book was a manual. Do this they'll do this do this. Now. It was very his the way we when we discussed it. It was sort of like you decide to take part of car engine first take off the whatever he not to improve mankind. Just to get the whatever that thing is sits on top of orange. Jeffrey, get it out of the way all in action. Yeah, whatever. And now you do this and now you do this. And now you do this. It wasn't for the good of mankind. It wasn't for the good of the car engine. It was cars. This is what you do to get people to jump through Certain hoops. So I repeat, you can use a gun to rob a bank or to save your family. He used it to rob a bank.

Jeff Sterns  10:09  
Amazing. And I mean, so you said you spent nine hours with them till I'm assuming more than one visit. I mean, you didn't sit there with them for nine hours.

Unknown Speaker  10:16  
Yeah, it was three visits of three hours, and not wanting I've had friends come to people builders and then beat they want to have a prison experience be taken back into the cell by one of my classmates because they had to go back for a count in the middle of the class twice, actually, in the middle of the 12 hour class. And on more than one occasion, they went back got locked in a cell and my people were allowed to do that the guard getting ready to do the count would note that there was a visitor in there so you know, don't count the visitor when you go by that cell. And they go back and account wouldn't clear it because somebody wasn't where they were supposed to be or the somebody escaped or tried to or whatever. So you didn't want to be in a cell when the count is messed up. Because you stay in the cell. They don't want to hear your visitor right then they freeze the prison. And some of my visiting guys won the trainer with us leasing Corporation. He was a sophisticated wonderful guy. He spent 12 hours locked up in a friend of mine sell another guy with I think TWA his name was Yuki Santo, because I remember when I got home, I went home I knew it was gonna be a while Misano called and said, Ben, my husband hasn't come home. I said, No, he's locked in the West block. Waiting Joe Maxell waiting for the count to clear He's fine. Probably not the safest he's ever been in his life. But he's not coming home from the count clears. I said all that to say this. I went into Charlie cell three times. Right after the count cleared. Then I went in, and then they're gonna count again in four hours. So I left after roughly three hours, I had no desire. Nothing was scary. I just didn't have any desire to be locked in a small space with Charlie Manson for 12 hours.

Jeff Sterns  12:18  
So when you were with him? Was it interesting? Because it's interesting. Did you have a ministry feeling? Because obviously, your background is your background is all about improving the lives of others period. I mean, that's that's your common thread, common thread common thread. So I mean, I can understand as like a fix it project Did you Did you have a feeling like I'm going to turn Charles Manson around, like What had you in there three times. What was the No, he was too far gone.

Unknown Speaker  12:48  
I was just fascinated. I didn't spend a second of trying to turn Sholay around. I do remember spending a little time in my own head making sure Charlie didn't turn me around. He was a very persuasive guy. No, it was just to do something interesting. You know, if I've spent more time with Jim Irwin, commander of Apollo 15, than I ever did with Charlie, and because of Jim's techniques, and he was a test pilot and so on. We ran through my information contribution to the conversation rather quickly. What I wanted to know from Jim was, what was it like to walk on the moon? What was it like when it took off wondering if it's, you know, Apollo 13 had blown up? He was in 15. So that's got to be on your mind. So much. So I want to know, stuff like that. What was it like when you came around the moon and took that famous Earthrise picture? Jim, there's several of them, but Jim took the first one. So what what was the feeling like? And I thought he was gonna say, the power of the United States are all my work is paid off, or, you know, whatever. He said, Ben, I was struck by my total insignificance, you're on the moon looking at the earth and he can see unobstructed, much of the rest of the solar system, if not the universe, in it. Probably what he was trying to explain to me makes you feel very, very tiny. So I just want to know what what Jim knew and felt with Charlie, I want to know the same thing. They would just seem to different professions.

Jeff Sterns  14:27  
We don't have to spend much more time or any more time if there's nothing interesting about Charles Manson. But did you end up leaving with anything really eye opening or distilled down to something or just crazy evil?

Unknown Speaker  14:40  
Crazy evil was probably number one. Yeah. But number two was seeing how he used the systems and techniques that I've been using and teaching for years all around the world. He boiled it down and used it for evil, but a It was, in some bizarre way. I probably regret saying this. It was a validation of the way things work. People say you go into San Quentin, what was it, like I said, Nothing goes on at San Quentin that doesn't go on in your neighborhood. The difference is, it's compat. There's more people inside those walls per square foot than in any neighborhood on earth with a pot of possibly possible exception of some tenement project, New York City. So it's condensed and it happens first faster, you might in your lifetime witness a murder or an event where a murder was the end result. You know, just getting out and around. It can happen, especially if you know, perhaps a big city and so on. At San Quentin, the first year I was there, 56 people were killed. So you can stay there are places in San Quentin, you can see stand and see very, except from behind a wall, virtually the whole prison. So you got back then 3200 inmates in a very tight space under a lot of mental and physical pressure. And you're within sight of 50 plus murders in a year. I live in a very wealthy neighborhood in Orange County. We had a murder while I was there. I remember probably more than one but we had one but it was so many square miles to have 3200 people in it. And we didn't have 56 murders. We had one with the comp the concept is the same. So it's just it's like being life in a pressure cooker.

Unknown Speaker  16:43  
This has been Jeff Sterns connected through cars.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai