BOB LUTZ ON LEADERSHIP

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Unknown: If you're going to be a
leader, having a degree of self

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confidence, and being relatively
firm in your opinions, is a good

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thing. If you don't have a
really firm belief in what

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you're doing is right. You can't
convince others to follow you.

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But I think most people, myself
included, there's always this

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tiny little voice in the back of
your back of your head. What if

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I'm wrong? What if I'm wrong?
What if I'm wrong? And that

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little voice gets you to listen
to people? And thank God, you

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know, many times in my career,
I've absolutely wanted

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something. And my guys said,
Bob, look, don't do this. It's

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not gonna work at or we can't
build it. And I push back a lot

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and say, Yeah, well, you guys
are just negative, et cetera, et

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cetera. And they'd come back and
say, Bob, listen, we gotta tell

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you. One more, one more
presentation, we'll take it down

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to the shops. And we'll show you
the reasons why we can't do. And

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then finally, I'd say, Okay, I
got it. And, by the way, if you

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run into that much hostility, it
probably isn't going to work.

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Because the people at that
point, if you do a forced job

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and say, I don't care what you
guys say, I hear by ordain that

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you do it, they're gonna go into
malicious obedience. And you'll

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never get a decent product.

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Jeff Sterns: Right. But you'd
mentioned when you get hostility

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like that, but I think it's,
you're really just talking about

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resistance. And you know, it's
not necessarily hostile yet. But

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I'm always a big fan and student
of leadership, not management,

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you know, leadership. And the
story you just told was actually

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a little bit surprising to me.
Because you got a big persona,

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he got a big personality, you
got a big reputation. And what

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you just said, tells me that you
created an environment that made

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it safe for people to give you
some roles.

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Unknown: That was that was
another thing I learned in the

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Marine Corps. And it's in Marine
Corps, leadership style

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principles, and that is that you
adapt your leadership style to

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the situation at hand. And when
time permits, you listen to your

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subordinates. That means for a
second lieutenant, he listens to

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the sergeants and corporals, who
have probably been in the

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infantry a hell of a lot longer
than a freshly minted second

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lieutenant. When you're a
colonel, you listen to

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lieutenants, and Sergeant
Majors. And if you go to a

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Marine Corps weapons
demonstration, the presentations

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are not like in the movies where
there's a two star general,

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standing at the with the maps
and with the pointer. In the

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Marine Corps, its sergeants and
Sergeants Major, who gives the

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presentation. So the Marine
Corps strongly believes in

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listening to the troops, the
only time you adopt a more

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draconian and more absolutist
leadership style is in an

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emergency situation where there
is either no time for

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discussion, or the situation is
so dire, that the troops are

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reluctant to take the measures
that you're going to ask them to

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take. And then you have to say,
look, we're in a tough

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situation. We can't argue this.
We need everybody to cut their

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budgets by 20%. I know it's
awful. I know, you're gonna have

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to get rid of people. I know
we're going to have to delay

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programs. But that's the
situation we're in. And I always

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tried to. I never said what I
always avoided, was once when

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they said, Well, why do we have
to do this? I never said because

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I say so. That's that's the sign
of a weak leader. A good leader

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is capable of explaining the
necessity to the people that are

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being asked to accomplish the
task. And I always used I always

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used to the extent possible. I
always used humor. But one GM

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story when I got to GM, one of
my in 2002 1001. On my return at

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age 70. I was at a first meeting
of all my direct reports and

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they were about 20 people in the
room. And I started you know

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just banter and telling them
what I thought was wrong with GM

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products. And I saw everybody
hunched over pieces of paper,

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scribbling furiously. I said,
what do you what do you what are

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you people doing? I said, Well,
you're a vice chairman, and

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you're addressing us. And you're
giving us wisdom from your

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career. And we're taking notes.
And I said, Guys, listen, you

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don't know me very well. But I
tend to run off at the mouth.

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I'm what is technically known as
given to verbosity. And I say a

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lot of things that don't make
any sense. And what I do is I

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try to trigger responses in
people. And I say a lot of

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controversial things, and I want
to hear push back. And you

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people should never be worried
about pushing back. The only

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thing I just one rule. Any one
of you at any time, in any

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meeting, can say, Excuse me,
sir, you're full of sh i t. I

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would just ask you to say and
this got a big laugh, I'd say

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you have to preface it with the
words. With all due respect,

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sir, you are full of and
everybody laughed. And, you

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know, what, two or three weeks
weeks later, we I think we were

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having an argument about fake
wood versus real wood and cars.

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And can the cuts can the
consumer tell the difference?

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Because the cost difference is
like 10 to one. And I was as

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fake wood today looks better
than real wood in most

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applications. And that's when
one guy finally said, Okay, I'm

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gonna test this. This with all
due respect, sir, you are And

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everybody looked horrified to
see how I was going to respond.

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I said, Thank you, sir. For
breaking the ice. I've been

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waiting patiently for somebody
to do that. Now. Tell me why.

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And once we got once everybody
understood that nobody was going

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to be punished. We had meetings
that sounded like verbal free

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for alls we'd shout in and I
mean, we insult each other. And

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I, I accepted as well as I got,
but you know what? I never

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feared for my authority, because
I knew at the end of the day,

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they knew I had the stripes.
They knew who what who was in

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charge. And they knew that if I
put my foot down, I was gonna

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get my way. So I I never saw it
as threatening my authority or

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threatening my position or
hurting my ego. If people

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criticized my ideas or my my
opinions.

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Jeff Sterns: This has been Jeff
Sterns connected through cars